Andy Shaw interviews Rick & Swany

This interview took place in October of 2004, the month our book "The Radio Producer's Handbook" hit the bookstores.



ANDY SHAW STRIKES BACK: THE AM RADIO PRODUCERS
By Andy Shaw




Radio is air, literally and figuratively, and it changes like Chicago’s weather. There’s a cool breeze when you groove on a mellow jazz station. A radiant warmth when you absorb a feel-good story on the news. Hot flashes when you catch the excitement of a sporting event or a great rock band. And a cold that chills to the bone when you listen to a talk show host rip the heart out of an unsuspecting celebrity target.

Unfortunately, I know the last weather system all-too-well, and not from a Jerry Taft forecast. Here’s the story: You may recall I have a day job as political reporter at ABC 7, and I moonlight as assistant innkeeper at the Windy City Urban Inn, a Lincoln Park bed-and-breakfast owned by my wife Mary. A couple of years ago, when Chicago Alderman Ed Burke tried to shut down the inn on licensing grounds (as payback for my tough reporting on his multiple conflicts of interest over the years), I was suddenly the hot story, and radio had a field day heralding the titanic battle of two well-known personalities, one from the world of news, the other politics. I was in the uncomfortable position of making news instead of reporting it until the city finally passed a bed-and-breakfast licensing ordinance, which ended the story and the controversy. Thankfully, the radio predators pulled out and I licked my wounds.

But the attack dogs were at it again over the summer when I had a “bad microphone moment” at the Democratic Convention in Boston, yelling for a mike on live TV on the 10 o’clock news. After that one, the radio hosts replayed the gaffe over and over with bells, whistles, phone calls from listeners and sound effects. It was definitely hot radio, and guess what? The shtick worked because of the talents of the people behind the scenes, the producers who help the hosts fill the dead air between the commercials. Kind of like the famous Billy Crystal line in City Slickers, when he tells his son’s class that he’s a radio spot salesman who, in effect, “sells air.” The kids in the class look dumbfounded. But when the producers of the best radio shows are doing their jobs well—lining up the celebrity guests and callers, prepping the big-money hosts with all the relevant information, making sure everything runs on time, and hitting the buttons that embellish the broadcast—that “air” sells like lottery tickets on a $100 million jackpot day.

All of this comes to mind as I finish reading a wonderful book by a couple of well-respected Chicago radio producers: Rick Kaempfer, who’s produced for Steve Dahl, Garry Meier and John Records Landecker; and John Swanson who handled Jonathan Brandmeier, Kevin Mathews, Steve Cochran and, most recently, the eminently successful Eric and Kathy Show on WTMX-FM.

These guys have collaborated on the first-ever how-to book for would-be radio producers. And I’ve gotta tell you, it’s the most interesting and best-written technical manual you’re likely to come across for a while. These guys walk you all the way through, including getting your first job (line up an internship while you’re in college—it’s the best way to get in the door), running a sophisticated computerized audio board (technophobes like me need not apply), keeping a show moving successfully (a mixture of balls, balance and bravado), maintaining a detailed list of phone numbers to reach key guests instantly (I always wondered where those calls in the middle of the night came from) and figuring out how to survive the inevitable clash of egos, management shake-ups and ratings slides that periodically roil the radio business.

“This is the book we wish was handed to us on our first day as producers,” they write in the introduction. “We don’t want another generation of producers tossed into the deep end of the radio pool without being taught how to swim.” The book moves breezily through an overview of radio, a detailed description of the job (p is for psychologist, r is for researcher, o is for organizer, etc.), a day-in-the-life section, a primer on getting that first job, a brief explanation of radio’s technical side, a chapter on “climbing the ladder” (who doesn’t want to make a few more bucks or become the host?) and finally, a glossary of relevant terms (the “input button” may sound erotic but it’s really just used to identify which piece of equipment is fed into a certain module.)

There’s even a forward by radio legend Landecker, who writes that “When I began my career in radio over 30 years ago, the position of producer was an afterthought. The authors of this book are among the handful of producers in America who helped define the position. Producers aren’t just helping us get sandwiches anymore. They are essential partners.”

There is, sad to say, one thing missing from the book: An explanation of how and why otherwise nice folks like Eric and Kathy turn into raging predators who lust after innocents like me, turning foibles into radio fuel, goofs into gags, errors into erotica. Where does that come from? The hosts? The producers? Station management? What makes Steve Dahl so nasty? Mancow so cruel? Howard Stern so pubescent? That probably doesn’t fit into a “how-to” book for radio producers, but it’s a logical question for someone like me.

So I did a little investigating of my own, over at the WTMX studio on North Michigan Avenue on a recent Friday night to get down with the authors, Rick Kaempfer and John Swanson. Here are excerpts of the interview:

AS: John, tell me this . . . One microphone foul-up at a Democratic National Convention, one screaming match on the 10 o’clock news, and the next day Eric and Kathy run me into the ground on their show. I thought they were nice people, but they trashed me. Why are they so mean?




JS: They’re not mean at all. What we liked about it was that you made Ron Magers crack up so bad he couldn’t even go on to the next story. If it was just you asking for a microphone, that was funny in itself, but for Ron Magers to not be able to do the next news story. . . we had to go with it.

AS: But why make hay over someone else’s pain? That’s what I’m asking!

JS/RK: (Simultaneously) That’s what we do.

JS: And the cool thing is that we introduced you to more of our audience, by saying this guy’s as human as the rest of us.

AS: Oh, thank you. I should probably send Eric and Kathy a thank you note, right?

RK: Think of it as a public service.

AS: Rick, on that subject . . . Imus, Howard Stern, Chris Matthews, locally Brandmeier, Steve and Garry [Meier] way back when, Steve now, the most popular radio personalities tend to be either obsessed with sex, or mean . . . why is that? Is that what sells?

RK: Well, the sex definitely sells. But the mean thing is, I think, a passing fad. Most aren’t mean. Brandmeier wasn’t mean. Steve and Garry . . . OK. Mancow, yes. But for the most part, that is going out of style. America is turning away from that. The ratings show it.

AS: OK. You are both smart guys. You’re successful radio producers. Why did you spend all this time on a manual when you could have been positioning yourselves to take over the on-the-air jobs that pay all the big bucks?

RK: Personally I have never been interested in being on the air because of the performing part of it. They’re two separate skills. Producing is one skill and performing is another. For me, writing and coming up with ideas is fun and it’s what I enjoy. Performing is too much pressure. I’ve had my own show a couple of times and I just didn’t like it as much.

AS: John, then you answer the same question. Why did you spend all this time on a manual when you could have been sending out tapes and trying to get yourself an on-air gig?

JS: I agree with Rick. When I ended up landing my job with Brandmeier, I actually thought at the time it was just my foot in the door to get an on-air job. But I enjoyed producing so much because I was able to do all of it. I was able to be on the air, come up with ideas, book guests, write parody songs and not have to deal with the every day . . . I’m kind of a moody guy and you have to be on every day and Andy, I’m sure you know, sometimes that’s hard to do and the pressure is great. There’s a lot of pressure being a producer, too. The book came about because Rick and I got together and we’ve been doing this a long time and we thought: What do we have to show for our success? Sure we can go around telling people I produced for Jonathan Brandmeier, Rick for Steve and Garry, Eric and Kathy now, John Records Landecker for Rick, but what do we have? We have nothing concrete, and that’s when the book idea came along. Rick was the driving force on the writing because that’s what he wants to do.

AS: I’ve got to be honest . . . it’s really a well-written and interesting manual. I found it fascinating. A lot of people are going to read this interview and not get a chance to read the manual. So tell them: What’s the single most important thing a person can do to get a start? There are thousands of people out there who would love to have your jobs, just like they’d love to have mine. What would you tell someone? What’s first and foremost?

JS/RK: (Simultaneously) Get an internship.

JS: Absolutely.

RK: Unlike TV, in radio, internships actually lead to jobs. An internship at a television station—I have a lot of friends in TV—especially in a big market like Chicago, just doesn’t generally lead to a job.

AS: So you get an internship while you are in college. You get tons of experience and you get yourself contacts . . .

RK: Sure.

AS: So you guys would make a call to help one of these interns?

JS: Right. That’s it absolutely. You get your foot in the door. As a matter of fact, right here at the radio station [WTMX] two of the people who are on-air as part-time and fill-in started off as interns. Now they’re on the air. Think about it. There are a lot of people who get into this business and their first gig is in Paducah. Here you are coming in out of college, you’re an intern and then you’re on the air at a major market radio station.

RK: Both of us started in Chicago. I went to the University of Illinois in Champaign and came right to Chicago, the third biggest market in the country. And I did it through the producer door, which is not that well known.

JS: (Laughing) Not when we started.

AS: You’ve written the manual now, why not start a business like a talent agency? Help people get jobs. There are agents for TV reporters and anchors. There are agents for radio people, why not do that? You guys obviously know the territory…
(Raucous laughing)

JS: Andy, were you at our last meeting together?

AS: I’ve just been around awhile so it seems obvious. But seriously—is that something you’re thinking of?

JS: We joked around about what we would say if you asked us certain things and we were going to say we were saving that for the next book or the next chapter of our lives. Actually there are many possibilities and . . . do we have to say?

RK: Obviously we’re available for that. Personally I’m consulting with the Loop [WLUP] morning show. I’m not there full-time. I’m coaching the people that are on the air and the producer. I’m training them. That is probably something that is our future in the long run.

AS: Considering that all of us have short shelf lives…

JS/RK: Exactly. Right. Absolutely.

AS: Tell me about the major talents that you’ve worked with, something that people would never know just by listening to the shows. What’s one secret about Eric and Kathy that listeners to the morning program don’t know? Without violating any confidences, of course.

(Long, loud laughing)

JS: Wow.

AS: (Prompting, like a producer) Eric picks his nose during the commercials . . . Kathy is always adjusting her bra strap, something like that.

JS: Well, maybe the audience does know this . . . Kathy can out-belch anybody. And I’m talking loud and longggg.

AS: She’s done this on the air?

JS: On the air, I don’t think she’s done it.

AS: How could you pass up a bit like that?

JS: Because it’s not very ladylike, is it? Eric, geez, I’m trying to think . . . what would the audience not know . . . Eric and Kathy are pretty much an open book on the air. They pretty much tell it all . . .

AS: All right, how about Brandmeier?

JS: (Laughing) I will say this about Jonny: He’s very intense. As I stated in the book, I would not be where I’m at now if it wasn’t for working with Brandmeier.
AS: Is that good or bad?

JS: I think it’s good. He ended up being able to teach me what makes a morning show work. He was all about show business. He always made it bigger than life.

AS: That’s why he took it out to California.

JS: That’s what made it so much fun. A very, very intense guy, but once the show was over, boom.

AS: OK, Steve and Garry, as dysfunctional as . . .

RK: Totally, every bit as dysfunctional.

AS: Garry gets a $10 million deal that all of a sudden he walks away from because he wants his wife to be his agent? I love Garry, but what’s with that?

RK: Garry is a unique guy. Let’s just say, I produced their show for about five years. Garry and I didn’t have a lot of in-depth conversations. He’s not that kind of guy. He is what he is. He shows up, he does his job. He is the best second banana in the business, ever. I don’t think there has ever been anyone as good as him . . . Steve is a complex guy.

AS: . . . but great staying power.

RK: Absolutely.

AS: It’s hard to survive 25 years . . .

RK: . . . and he’s still right at the top. I have a lot of respect for him. Steve taught me to not screw up because if I ever screwed up, 300,000 people would know about it. So he taught me a lot.

AS: . . . and John Records Landecker?

RK: The thing that people don’t realize about John is that he’s very energetic on the air, super energetic, I’ve never met anybody more energetic. Off the air, he’s nearly comatose. He uses every ounce of energy that he has for the show. He puts everything into it.

AS: Have you guys decided which private security firm is going to handle the crowds at the book signing when thousands of people are lined up around the block?
(Laughing)
One final question and that should take care of it. Rick, you don’t have a show, so I can’t ask you this. This is for you John . . . Will you agree that Eric and Kathy will say nice things about me every day from now on?

JS: I’ll work on that for you. I’ll do my best. Actually, when we were talking about radio being mean and sexual, I meant to add that the Eric and Kathy Show is not mean at all, that’s why it’s been so successful . . .

AS: The sex on the show is kind of like training bras.

JS: It’s right up to the line. The best part about it is the women know what we’re talking about without us getting graphic about it, which is great.

RK: And for the record, I advised John not to play that tape of you. I said that it was just over the line to keep repeating you screaming for the microphone.

AS: I would think he wouldn’t want to miss such a great opportunity. And it wasn’t just him, WGN has gotten a lot of mileage out of it, and bless them. We’re all still working.

RK: I’ve heard it on other stations, too, by the way.

AS: You know what they always say. Just spell my name right.

Postscript: "The Radio Producer’s Handbook" was recently published by Alworth Press. You can buy it in bookstores, or online from Amazon or Barnes & Noble for $19.95, and it’s a must for anyone who wants to break into radio. But this story comes with a warning: I play in the radio air from time to time as a fill-in host on WLS Newstalk 890. So if Rick and John get lucky enough to do a book tour, and it happens to coincide with one of my fill-in radio host gigs, I will get even. Tough Love. Reality Radio. Take your pick.

(Lake Magazine: Holiday 2004 issue)



Did I mention the book is still available? Click here....The Radio Producer's Handbook

Fax Radio

The following article appeared in the Chicago Tribune June 20, 1989. It’s fun to take a trip back in time, and see how far our technology has progressed in that time. The fax machines we used then came with rolls of curly glossy paper.




FAX RADIO
by Katherine Seigenthaler



Steve Dahl and Garry Meier, disc-jockey hosts of a popular afternoon radio show on WLUP-AM (AM 1000) in Chicago now have a fax machine in their studio to accept comments and other items from listeners.

In the past, the only way to get through to them was by managing to break through WLUP's jammed phone lines. But technology, like time, marches on, and radio audiences can now use fax machines to communicate with these two fellows and other radio personalities.

The fax machine in their studio operates almost continually all day. Every few minutes, something new comes through. While some of it is usable on the air, much of it is unsavory, and best used for a private laugh in the studio, with only a brief (and cleaned up) mention on the air.

For instance: Someone sends a fax which has altered the spelling of Rob Lowe's name with unwholesome results. The very next item to arrive is a lewd cartoon featuring a pig and a chicken.

Rick Kaempfer, producer of Steve Dahl and Garry Meier's afternoon radio show said, "We get a lot of things that people are afraid to say themselves, but they fax it hoping that Steve or Garry will talk about it on their show. Frankly, much of it is so lewd there is no way we can clean it up well enough to use over the air. It is funny though."

Kaempfer claims Dahl and Meier were the first to incorporate a fax machine into their on-air schtick, and they have been giving the fax number to listeners for at least a year.

But according to Brian Kelly, program director at station WLS (FM 94.7), his station was the first to have an *in-studio* fax machine. WLS, like competitor WLUP, welcomes the frivilous, and the more-so the better. Both stations invite people to 'Fax your face' to the station, so the deejay's can describe you to the listeners. People are to make a copy of their face on the office copy machine, then fax the copy to the station.

Kelly noted that "...faces are not the only body parts they fax to us. They actually put the naked part of the body on the copy machine, and then fax the results to us. We've gotten enough body parts to make a complete person, although we have a big overstock of certain parts. I guess they think it will shock us."

WLS' midday deejay, Doug Blair, is by far the most fax-infested at that station because the vast majority of fax-ers work 9 AM to 5 PM, in offices where fax machines are available and the employees obviously are not kept busy enough and have idle time to create mischief. Indeed, the dawning of radio's fax era has updated, but hardly altered, the time-honored practice of goofing off at the office when your supervisor is not watching.

In a less state-of-the-art era, the average employee pretended frantically to be calling a client when, in truth, he was hoping to be the lucky 'caller number ten' in the radio station's cash giveaway contest.

Today, that same employee stands at the office fax machine, ostensibly sending a copy of that important report off to the client. After looking around furtively to make sure the supervisor is elsewhere, he in fact sends an obscene joke to Dahl and Meier, hoping they will read it over the radio, or else a copy of that picture he made on the copy machine the night before, after everyone had left the office but he '..stayed late to finish that urgent report...'





Rick's notes: This article came out about two weeks before my father passed away. I remember showing it to him during our very last conversation; a lunch at Wags restaurant. I left Steve and Garry's show about a year and a half later (early 1991).

By the way, fax machines are still a staple of the radio producer's booth, and the contributions from listeners did eventually manage to progress beyond naughty jokes. Of course, e-mails are now more commonly used to communicate with your favorite radio show, and obviously, they still take phone calls.

"Use Your Glove"

The year was 1994. Witnesses near Elvis' grave at Graceland said they heard "spinning" noises the day Michael Jackson announced he had married Elvis' girl Lisa Marie.




During that time, John Landecker and I imagined what the King might have been saying as he spun round and round. The following lyrics accompany the tune “Burning Love,” and John performed this as Elvis (in full costume) for the first couple of Landecker & Legends tours.

(Warning: Content is rated PG)

“Use Your Glove”*
(Landecker/Kaempfer)

Lord almighty, Lisa Marie’s so surprisin’,
Just like Priscilla, she gave her old man the heave ho,
But girl, girl, girl, this new husband that you’ve acquired,
Is a llama owning, crotch grabbing, monkey loving, scary freak show,
So tonight when it’s time to retire,
And he’s wearing your dress he admired,
Say not tonight, Michael I’m tired.
Use your glove

Ooh ooh ooh, Michael is so mesmerizing,
He plays with the kids and pretends to be Frankenstein,
He comforts them when it’s raining and the sun ain’t shining,
That’s OK—as long as they ain’t no kin of mine,


So tonight when it’s time to retire,
Surround the kids with barb wire,
Put a damper on his desire,
Spurn his love.


Lisa Marie babe, listen here to your daddy,
Put the rights to my songs in a safe and throw the key away,
Daddy’s motto was ‘Takin’ Care of Bizness’
But I never did no business with a man that change his face every day.


So tonight when it’s time to retire,
And he’s wearing your dress he admired,
Say not tonight, Michael I’m tired.
Use your glove.

*This song also appeared on “Landecker & the Legends, Volume 1.” (One of the six CDs we released to benefit Lambs Farm in Libertyville). Check out the website of The Legends at www.thelegends.net

"The Man with the World's Longest Name"

The following AP report announced that I won a national writing contest…



DIET COKE DISCOVERS LITERARY UNKNOWNS

ATLANTA, May 17, 1999 /AP / -- Who says you cant’ break into the publishing world on your first try? Diet Coke is making it possible for one talented writer to do just that. Rick Kaempfer of Mt. Prospect, Illinois has been named the grand prize winner of the “diet Coke Living Life to It’s Fullest” writing contest.

Rick’s story was chosen from more than 400 entries. The selection was made based on the judging of seven best-selling authors including Elmore Leonard, Nora Roberts, Lisa Scottoline, Maeve Binchy, Mark Victor Hansen, Barbara Taylor Bradford, and Mark & Chrissy Donnelly. The entries were judged on originality, creativity, appropriateness to theme, and clarity. Twenty three finalists were also announced today.

Kaempfer, who lives in Mt. Prospect, a suburb of Chicago, with his wife and two young sons, read about the contest in his local newspaper (The Daily Herald) and, despite having never entered a contest before, was inspired to enter because of the title. “When I read about the ‘Living Life to the Fullest’ contest it reminded me of my grandfather,” says Rick. His is a whimsical tale about a man who adds the name of everyone who inspires him throughout his life to his own name.

As the grand prize winner, Rick and his wife will be flown to New York City on May 14th to live the life of a best-selling author during an all-expenses-paid, three-day, two-night trip. Highlights include a VIP tour of prestigious publishing houses HarperCollins Publishers and Penguin Putnam, Inc., as well as meetings with publishing executives to discuss his writing. Rick will also enjoy dining in the company of best-selling authors Mark & Chrissy Donnelly, Mark Victor Hansen, Nora Roberts, Lisa Scottoline and Elmore Leonard. His story will be published as an e-book that will appear on the diet Coke website through the end of this year.



Rick’s Notes:
The e-book has vanished into the nether world since the end of 1999, but the original children’s poem that my essay was based upon still remains. I wrote the following story in 1992 the day I learned my grandfather’s cancer had returned. This story isn’t really about him, although he did like to take me to the park when I was a boy. It’s more about the spirit of him…the way my mind saw him as a child. This is the only children’s story I’ve ever written. My grandfather, Engelbert Ruscheinski, died in 1993. I never showed him this story.

I know it’s corny, but it’s a children’s story, and it did make me feel a lot better at the time. I hope you read this in that spirit.




THE MAN WITH THE WORLD'S LONGEST NAME

Rudy liked to play in the park, there were so many things to do,
He could slide down the slide, or play in the sand, or he could swing on a swing or two,
Every day he went to the park, as soon as he finished school,
And he would wait for his mom to pick him up, that was his #1 rule.

One day the sun was shining bright, and he had little time left to play,
He couldn’t stop watching the man on the bench, who came to the park every day,
There was something about that old man there, and Rudy couldn’t help stare,
Birds were flocking and landing on him, and they came from everywhere,

He held a big bag, and fed all the birds, and soon the food was no more,
But they stayed to listen to the old man talk, and Rudy wondered, "What for?"
So he dropped the sand he was playing with, and he walked to the end of the park.
What was the old man saying to them—what were those soothing remarks?

But as he approached, the birds flew away, leaving Rudy alone with the man.
The man looked at Rudy, and Rudy looked back, and he almost turned and ran.
"What is your name?" came a gentle call, and he added, "You look like a Mike."
Rudy shook his head, and the man guessed on, "Are you Charlie, or Kenneth, or Ike?"

"Rudy's my name," he heard himself say, and he wondered about the man's name.
He wondered if he was supposed to guess back, were they playing some sort of game?
"What is your name?" Rudy asked the old man, then guessed "Are you a Joe?"
"Yes, I am," the old man replied, "and a Tom, and a Sean, and a Moe!"

"I'm also a Vince, a Benny, a Pete, a Billy, a Jim, and a Barry,
I'm a Chuck, and a Steve, a John, and a Beav, an Alex, a Mark and a Gary.
All of these names are part of me now, I’m the man with the world’s longest name,"
And he told little Rudy the story about, how he achieved this acclaim,

"I once had three names," the old man said," A first, a middle and last.
But that was many years ago, before my loved ones passed,
When I was a boy, my granddad died; I mourned him and I cried,
My mother tried to comfort me, but I wanted to know why he died."

"God called for him," she said to me, "He also loves your granddad.
And he touched our lives, like no one else; be thankful for the years that we had.
What one thing will you miss the most, what made you love him so much?"
I said, “I loved the way he made me laugh, with a face, or a smile, or a touch."

"Do you think that you could do that, son, to people that you meet?"
I just nodded and looked at her, and I slowly got up to my feet.
"That way he still lives with us," I said, as the idea came.
"And since he is now part of me, I shall add his name to my name."

"I added his name to my other three, to make the total four.
And many years have passed since then, and I've added many more.
My father was great, and he loved to sing, and though he’ll never have fame,
When he died, I learned his songs, and I added his name to my name."

"My mother was kind and loved animals, she soothed them with her sweet words.
And when she died, I added her name, and I came to talk to her birds."
Rudy was quiet, but then he asked, "Have all of those people died?"
"Oh, no!" said the man, and he smiled at Rudy. "Inside me they're quite alive!"

"If you wanted to add my name," Rudy asked, "would you put it right after Mark?"
"If I added your name, I'd put it first, and I'd love to play in the park."
Rudy smiled and said “My mom’s coming soon, I better get back to the sand,”
And though he never saw him again, Rudy never forgot that old man.


Rick’s Notes:
My sister-in-law Kelly drew some beautiful pictures to accompany this story back in 1992, and I did try to sell it to a few publishers, but I didn't really know what I was doing in those days. In 1999 I was reading the Daily Herald, and saw the article about this contest. Something about that title "Living Life to It's Fullest" made me think of my grandfather, which made me think of this story. I dug it out of the closet, converted it to an essay, and sent it in. When they called a few months later to tell me I had won, I was taking a nap. Bridget didn't wake me up--she took a message. I always thought that was funny.


The pictures below were taken in late May 1999, when we arrived in New York to accept the prize.



The top photo shows the television cameras that followed us around (my wife Bridget accompanied me). Stories about this contest, and my winning the grand prize, appeared on dozens of television stations in the country, including WLS-TV (Channel 7) here in Chicago. (In later editions of “From the Archives” I’ll be showcasing some of the press stories/interviews that came out after I won the prize.)

The bottom photo was taken at lunch at the famous round table in the Oak Room of the Algonquin Hotel where Dorothy Parker and her vicious circle used to dine every day in the 1920s. Chicken Soup for the Soul author Mark Victor Hansen and romance novelist Nora Roberts are having lunch with Bridget and me.